Since “Billions” first aired, shows taking on the very wealthy have become both common and popular. But shows like “Succession,” “The White Lotus,” even a horror story like “The Fall of the House of Usher,” are often satirical. “Billions” is frequently funny, but the intent feels different.

LEVIEN This was not a satire. It’s a drama with comedic moments, but that’s different than a satire. These characters are perhaps exaggerated in some ways, but we’re not sending up the rich. That wasn’t our goal here. It was more to let people into a world we felt we’d identified — yes, with our spin and our point of view, but not so that we could all huddle together and laugh and feel better than them.

KOPPELMAN There’s an absurdism to “Billions,” for sure, but that’s because the world right now is capital-A Absurdist. The show has to capture that spirit.

On the eve of the series finale, I spoke to co-creators and showrunners David Levien and Brian Koppelman about Billions for the last time (sniff!) for the New York Times.

GOYER: We’re aware of the fact that we’ve got actors like Lee Pace and Jared Harris, and that we can’t just plunk anyone into one of those smaller roles, or it’s going to break the suspension of disbelief. That is our motto: Every one of these people has to be able to stand toe to toe with Jared Harris.

I’ve been waiting for this one for a long time: I interviewed David S. Goyer about making Foundation Season 2, the year’s most thrilling show and one of the all-time great sophomore surprises, for Decider.

Speaking of Lanfear, did you have any idea that she was going to get this kind of reaction from viewers?
Yes, we have been stanning Lanfear since the writers’ room; there’s one writer in particular who would do her best Lanfear all over the room. As soon as Natasha O’Keeffe got to Prague and started playing the character, everyone could tell that something really special was happening. On set, we use the drag-queen dial. I’ll be like, “You’re kind of like 80 percent drag queen in this scene right now, and we need you dialed down to a 70.” That’s the shorthand we use for Lanfear.

But Natasha can deliver all of the layers of Lanfear at once. “You’re in bed talking about your past relationships, but you were actually in love with him 3,000 years ago and he broke up with you, and that’s why you joined the Dark, so you’ve always hated him, but you still love him.” She could do all that and make it feel simple.

I interviewed The Wheel of Time showrunner Rafe Judkins about the show’s exceptional second season for Vulture.

Pollo del Mar wants to be hated. As a bad guy (or heel) in the NWA—the National Wrestling Alliance, a professional wrestling company owned and operated by the Smashing Pumpkins’ Billy Corgan (no shit!)—it’s her job to get heat, i.e. the boos and jeers and chants that separate professional wrestling’s villains from its heroes. There’s just one problem: She’s a drag queen, and it’s made her too popular. 

“I would love to be a true heel in the world of professional wrestling,” says Paul Pratt, Pollo’s real-world alter ego. “But it’s ultra-challenging, because the moment I walk through the curtain, people erupt. They know that drag queens are supposed to be sassy and bitchy, so even when I say horrible things to people, they’re like ‘Yass, bitch, read me for filth! The library is open!’ It’s so frustrating. I just called you a piece of trash! You’re not supposed to like it!”

For my Defector debut, I spoke with pro wrestlers Pollo del Mar, Nyla Rose, Anthony Bowens, Sonny Kiss, and Kidd Bandit about how they, and professional wrestling in general, are handling the anti-LGBTQ+ moral panic.

I was interviewed by student journalist Isaac Suarez Flint about the New York Times’ coverage of trans issues and the response to it of which I was a part for his high school newspaper, the Evanstonian. Isaac is trans himself and writes about the issue with astonishing courage and clarity. I hope you’ll read his piece. It moved me to tears. This is why we did it.

Della is doubly marginalized, in that she’s both a woman and queer. Even as she’s fighting not to be dismissed by men, she’s still keeping a major part of her life a secret.

Yes. It’s strange: When I take on a character, there are certain things I decide about how I want to play them, and then there’s a whole other element where the character arrives with you in ways you didn’t expect. That dichotomy, that conflict — Della of needing to be seen and also needing to hide — is a fascinating element of her that I really only became aware of maybe four or five episodes into season one.

I kept thinking, “Why am I being quiet in this scene? Why am I pushing to be seen, and in the next moment, I’m trying to hide?” Then you become aware of those two things. With only three percent of lawyers in L.A. at that time being women, while being discovered as a gay woman would have meant arrest, loss of her profession, disgrace … Della’s pushing and pushing to be seen, then constantly on the back foot, hiding and being careful not to draw too much attention to herself.

It’s not something that feels very natural to me. She and I are very different. I’m quite a free spirit, very much myself, and don’t mind being sort of out there, yet she’s constantly walking this tightrope. That whole dichotomy gave Della her own life, really. It creates a conflict within her which I love exploring.

I interviewed Perry Mason‘s Juliet Rylance for Vulture!!! Ahem, I mean, I interviewed Perry Mason‘s Juliet Rylance for Vulture.

One of the most unusual things about the show is that, especially in the early episodes, Cassian Andor is not particularly charismatic. We’re used to dramas centered on the most magnetic guy in the room.
You probably were in a room with him and never noticed. Cassian had to be that guy because this is a big show that wants to tell the story of people that big shows never cared about before. It’s the only way to be honest about a revolution.

Yes, there are leaders, but revolutions are not made by leaders. They’re made by numbers, by conviction, by regular people thinking they can do something extraordinary. This is the story of one of those people that was never celebrated. Oh, this person is going to bring change, this person is different — no, not really. The strength of community, that’s what the show is about.

You cannot fall into the trap of making the charismatic, funny guy who you know from the beginning is going to find a way out. You have to think the opposite. You have to question, Why are we supporting him? I was always saying, “Let’s avoid movie moments as much as we can.”

I interviewed Diego Luna about his incredible Star Wars show Andor for Vulture.

Jan herself introduces the show in its first scene. She says, “I know it may seem unbelievable, but we lived in a different world back then.” Do you think there are lessons from Jan’s ordeal with B that are still applicable today?
I hope one of the main things people take away is that they can learn from the Brobergs’ mistakes. They’re very up front about it: They made every mistake in the book. And It was a very different time. The fact that the FBI agents didn’t even know what a pedophile was? That was shocking.

It’s easy to hide behind a screen and be like, Wow, that’s insane, but if that was me or my family, I never would’ve let that happen. You don’t know until you’re in that situation. Look at the pain and heartache the Brobergs went through: They still came together as a family afterwards. That’s one of the beautiful things about seeing Jan at the very beginning. It gives you hope that she’s okay. She made it out the other side.

I interviewed actor Mckenna Grace about playing Jan Broberg, the kidnapping and brainwashing victim at the heart of Nick Antosca’s harrowing true-crime drama A Friend of the Family, for Vulture. I’m so glad this piece is finally out there.

Much of the finale’s storytelling is conveyed through largely silent close-ups of people’s faces, particularly Rhaenyra’s. What was the thought process behind that?
I think about the amount of craft and hard work that went into getting that set built and those costumes made and those wigs put on everybody’s heads, just to get to a space where I can have two people talking to each other at a table or by a fireplace. Those moments are a testament to everyone’s work.

I tell the actors to take their time and live in those moments of silence, to not feel they have to rush through those scenes. I call it “the mud” — those complex, human, partner-on-partner scenes. I cut my teeth in network television, and I think silence scares people; I appreciate a show where the silences are deliberate choices to make it more cinematic and emotional.

One of my favorite moments is when Rhaenyra comes in and she’s just been crowned queen. Emma and I talked about this: “Sit and wait until you feel you have something to ask or say. Think about your dad: What would he do? Look at all those faces looking back at you. Where do you start? What are your first words as queen? Just be there until the line wants to come out.”

I interviewed Greg Yaitanes, the director of House of the Dragon‘s excellent season finale, for Vulture.

That seems to be the case most specifically with Prince Daemon. Much of the fandom wants to see him, as you put it, wearing a white hat or a black hat, to the point that many of them criticized Sara Hess, a writer and executive producer on the show, for her less-than-glowing assessment of Daemon. Did you see this coming?

I’m having trouble understanding it. We established right out of the gate, in the pilot, that Daemon is a fascinating guy, but he’s not Ned Stark. So I didn’t see it coming.

To me, Daemon is the antihero of this story. He’s a character with a real darkness to him, who’s dangerous and charming in equal parts. I knew people would be fascinated by him and latch onto him, but I figured they’d do it in the way they did with Jaime Lannister or Bronn or the Red Viper. I did not think they would oddly apply this sort of super-fandom to him and try to justify every single thing he’s done as being intrinsically heroic. It simply isn’t. It’s not the case. Nor will it be in the future.

Nobody in the show writes in a vacuum. I’m the lead writer; I oversee everything that happens on the show; every choice comes through me. If it’s on the screen, it’s because I either wrote it or approved it being written. Sara Hess and I wrote 85 percent of Season 1 together. We did not set out to write villains and heroes in this. We set out to write interesting humans and complex characters who are hopefully compelling, but compelling doesn’t always mean heroic or unimpeachable.

I see Daemon as having heroic aspects to him, and I understand why people would. I mean, he’s incredibly charismatic, he’s handsome, he looks great in that wig, he rides a dragon, he has a cool sword. I totally get it. But if you’re looking for Han Solo, who’s always going to do the right thing in the end, you’re in the wrong franchise, folks.

I interviewed House of the Dragon co-creator and co-showrunner Ryan Condal for the New York Times.

Perhaps it’s too late at this point to ask, but does some part of Ser Criston still love Rhaenyra?

[Smiles ruefully.] First love is first love. I think everyone will always love the person that they fell in love with for the first time. From the first time you hear a beautiful piece of music, you’ll always love it, even if you’ve heard it a hundred times, because you remember that first time you heard it. So yeah, he will always love Rhaenyra.

I interviewed House of the Dragon star Fabien Frankel for the New York Times.

Okay, so: Why didn’t Rhaenys just torch the royal family and the whole Green crew?
[Laughs long and hard.] I know! The temptation is there, right? In the end, she makes a bigger choice. We see that at the moment with what’s going on in Ukraine; to choose not to destroy is the better choice. That’s an important thing for us all to remember right now.

It’s why she would have made such a great leader. She had, in that moment, all the power. Yet she has respect for Alicent as a woman and a mother. They understand being in the grip of other people who might torch them. They know the only right choice is not to go there. Furthermore, it’s the intelligent choice, on her part, not to torch a whole bunch of innocent people in the room. What’s to be gained? In the end, it’s not her battle.

The escape she makes on the dragon is something that’s been brewing since that very moment she was passed over wrongly, unjustly, for the crown. It’s this yearning just to get the hell out and get away from the whole ruddy lot of things. When she bursts out of that arena, she’s internally saying, “Fuck you all.” It’s more about that than a need for revenge or destruction that the men might’ve jumped onto. She’s breaking her own glass ceiling.

I interviewed House of the Dragon star Eve Best for Vulture.

Olivia, I’ve seen a lot of debate over the end of this episode, when Viserys mistakes Alicent for Rhaenyra and tells her about his ancestor Aegon the Conqueror’s prophecy of a messianic “Prince That Was Promised.” She mistakenly believes Viserys is referring to their son, Aegon. Does she fully believe it, or is she hearing what she wants to hear?

COOKE We spoke a lot about this. There was a massive amount of relief when Alicent told Rhaenyra, “You will make a great queen.” She’s so over the fighting and having this ball of bitterness and anxiety in her stomach: Just let it go, Rhaenyra is the heir, this is fine.

When Viserys says that, I genuinely think she thinks he’s talking about Aegon, her son. And I think she’s furious. She’s like, “After all that?” But Viserys is on his deathbed; that’s what he requested, and so she must follow it through. Whether that’s unconscious wishful thinking, I don’t know, but that’s how I played it.

Emma, this is shifting gears pretty dramatically, but there’s a video clip of you telling Olivia that your favorite drink is “a Negroni Sbagliato with prosecco in it” that went viral on TikTok and Twitter and inspired a numberofarticles. Is this something you’re aware of?

D’ARCY I thought it’d be quite funny to be drinking one right now, but I’m not. [Laughs.] I keep thinking I should tell my mum that I’ve become a meme in the hope that she’ll be happy for me, but I’d have to explain what a meme is, and I’ve decided it’s too much effort.

I feel so embarrassed. Because in those interviews, when we’ve been at it for six hours, I’m honestly only trying to make Olivia laugh.

COOKE [Laughs.] Is that right?

D’ARCY No, I’m obviously doing Campari’s next campaign.

COOKE I’d be like, “Ten million pounds, please!”

I interviewed House of the Dragon stars Emma D’Arcy and Olivia Cooke for the New York Times.

I love Laenor. He’s a wonderful guy in a terrible situation. I was thrilled watching him get away. I’ve had so many lovely messages from people; someone told me they whooped when he escaped. Like, they cheered.

I did, too!
I’m so pleased! I remember Miguel saying, “No one gets to be happy in Westeros for very long.” It’s amazing that there’s this moment of relief.The escape was one of the first things I did. It was a really stormy day, and we were out in the ocean in this massive hundred-year-old boat, which was both exciting and terrifying. To see it in the context of the episode was really gratifying.

But, of course, this is Westeros, and there’s no such thing as a completely happy ending. In order for Laenor to get away, that poor Velaryon servant had to get murdered by Daemon so they’d have a decoy.
[Laughs] Oh, God. You’re a very moral, empathetic person. And now I feel deeply ashamed that I did not grieve for that poor member of the working classes who was collateral damage so that Laenor might have a shot at a decent life.

I interviewed House of the Dragon‘s John Macmillan for Vulture.

Offered the job on House of the Dragon before she knew how many life stages and child actors the casting would require, James began with the older performers. “We cast the elder generation, Emma D’Arcy and Olivia Cooke, first,” Condal notes. “The challenge was in finding two young actors who not only had an ability that measured up to Olivia and Emma’s considerable talents, but who also looked like them.”

“You cast Emma, who is in my mind one of the most extraordinary actors of their generation; that was a slow process, as you can imagine,” James elaborates. “Once you get them cast, you say, ‘Can you send me pictures of Emma when they were younger?’ That informs and steers you.” Fortunately, James had a young actor in mind.“I’d already seen Milly in Upright, and I met her when she was in London when she was about 18,” James continues. “The luck is that when you cast Emma, I suddenly went, ‘Oh my God, Milly is a doppelgänger.’”

Similar synchronicity took place with the casting of Alicent, though other factors were at play. “We were blessed that Emily has an almost identical profile and demeanor” to Cooke, James says. “There was a bit of worry at one point because Emily had to have a scene where she’s in bed with Paddy, who’s 47, and she’s 18. She had just turned 16, I think, when we cast her; I thought, Oh God, should we be casting so young? And we said, ‘Yes, because that’s the point. That is the cruelty of the story: These two really charming best friends are royally fucked over by their fathers and everyone around them.’”

I spoke to House of the Dragon co-creator/co-showrunner Ryan Condal and casting director Kate Rhodes James about the challenge of double (and triple) casting the show’s characters for Vulture. This was a really fun and informative piece to put together, and I hope you enjoy it!

In terms of Larys’s position in society, he’s got two strikes against him from birth. First, he’s the second son, so he’s at a loss there. Then there’s his disability, from which his nickname “the Clubfoot” is derived. Obviously you don’t want to raise the implication that because he has a physical disability, there’s something morally wrong with him — but at the same time, that’s how some of the characters in this world see it. How do you approach that?
It’s his superpower. It’s worked really well in his favor. The fact that he has a clubfoot and people don’t deem him as a threat, or don’t think he can fend for himself … I mean, Harwin is very protective of him. He’s able to use it to his advantage. He’s not an evil disabled person or anything like that. He’s used the prejudice of the world against itself.

It’s reminiscent of how Tyrion knew his dwarfism would lead people to underestimate him in the original Game of Thrones.
That’s George R.R. Martin’s obsession, right? “Cripples, bastards, and broken things.” That’s who he loves: People who have a disadvantage in this very macho world. It’s the people who use their mind — and the more feminine aspects of their personality, I think — to decimate the world. It’s extraordinary.

I interviewed House of the Dragon‘s Matthew Needham about his character, Larys Strong, for Vulture.

You got to do some real serious fantasy stuff during your time on the show. I mean, you rode a dragon into battle.
Oh, mate, I loved it. It was one of the best things I’ve done. I’m not sure if you’ve ever been to Ibiza or Magaluf or somewhere like that, but you have these bulls in the bars you can jump on and ride them, like a rodeo-type thing. It’s a bit like one of them: You jump on and it’s been programmed for a minute long, and it’s got all the dips and twists and turns, and you strap in. And they have a giant leaf blower and a guy just blows wind in your face. I can’t lie: I thought it was amazing. I’d do that all day.

What’s it like to walk into a production on this scale?
It’s a weird one. I was — still am — a massive Game of Thrones fan. I say that all the time but then I realize I weren’t as big a fan as I thought, because the fans of the books are just so, so, so much more clued up. [Laughs.]

When you’re on the outside, it’s massive. But on the inside, I didn’t realize the scale of it. When you’re shooting scenes, it just felt like the job. My agent still says to me, “You don’t realize how big this show is, do you?” And I’m like, “No.”

I interviewed House of the Dragon‘s Theo Nate, aka Laenor Velaryon, for Vulture.

Do you feel there was a sublimated romantic or sexual tension between Rhaenyra and Alicent?

CAREY As a queer person myself, I read an undertone in the script that I knew could be played. That being said, I don’t think Ryan Condal [a creator and showrunner] sat there writing a Sapphic drama. If you want to see it, you can. If you want to pretend it’s not there, you can also do that.

The thing is, these girls don’t know what “platonic” or “romantic” means, whether that be the words or the feelings themselves. There’s just a closeness between two young women that cannot be verbalized, especially in the world they live in. I don’t think they fully understand the feelings; it’s just all-consuming love.

There’s an underlying jealousy that I read into it, especially coming off the back of Episode 4. It was this scene where we were on a bench, and it’s the first time we’ve seen these two women reconnect after losing this closeness they had. I remember in rehearsal at the end of the scene, we were like, “Did you feel like we were about to kiss?”

ALCOCK And I was like, “Yeah!”

I interviewed Milly Alcock and Emily Carey about their time on House of the Dragon for the New York Times.

You were in the original Game of Thrones. What was it like to return to this world after all this time?

Very bizarre, to be honest. When I first did it, I was working with Alfie Allen [Thrones’ Theon Greyjoy] on another job, and he had this book with a dragon on the front. He roughly explained the premise, which just sounded nutty and implausible to me. I was like, “Good luck with that. It’s never going to work.” [Laughs.] Then I had an audition for it, and when you have an audition, you go, “It’s brilliant.” Your mind switches.

Arriving on set in Northern Ireland ten years ago or so, it was unknown. It still had that feeling of, “Shit, is this going to work?” I remember hanging out with Kit [Harington, a.k.a. Jon Snow] and those guys, and they’re all desperately doing press-ups and trying to figure things out. Walking to the studios at Warner Bros. for House of the Dragon and seeing carved statues 70 feet high or whatever in this incredible set … It was a very different energy: Wow, this is high pressure, and a lot to live up to.

I interviewed House of the Dragon‘s Jefferson Hall about the two(!) roles he plays on the show for Vulture.

Were you a “Game of Thrones” guy before you got this part?

Yes, I was. It had been going for about three or four seasons before I actually watched it because fantasy is not really my genre. I was staying with a friend in L.A., and he said to me, “Have you seen this ‘Game of Thrones’?” And I was like: “No. It’s got dragons, why the hell would I watch that?” [Laughs.] He said, “Just watch one episode.” And it was so much more gritty and, for want of a better word, realistic than I was expecting. I was hooked.

I interviewed House of the Dragon‘s Steve Toussaint for the New York Times.