¡SPOILERS!
* Alright, I may be done speculating about what the real deal is with Jacob and the Man in Black, what they really want, whether they’re good or evil, whatever. We just have no clue! I mean, I’ve gone on at length about what an enjoyment-sucking waste of time Doc Jensen-style theorizing is, but obviously I’ve still had fun trying to guess what was up with the core mystery. But after tonight’s episode, I’m about ready to hang up my spurs. From tweaking our understanding of how the Monster operates (apparently he can take the form of a dead person and make Smokey noises off) to showing omniscient Jacob as slightly less than omniscient (he seemed surprised enough by Richard to beat him up before asking questions) to showing benevolent Jacob as slightly less than benevolent (lording it over the MIB, being kind of a dick to Richard, his whole sadistic lab-rats experiment of dragging people to this Island to kill each other on the off chance that they might not and thus help him win a dorm-room philosophy argument with the MIB), the episode may as well have begun with “You think you know, but you have no idea.”
* I do feel comfortable calling them both mass murderers, for whatever that’s worth!
* Haha, after seasons of speculation, Captain Magnus Hanso doesn’t even appear!
* Man, they’re not even trying to pretend they’re not straight-up ripping off The Stand anymore, are they? Digging the bolt out, the business with the keys…all the MIB had to do was quote “Sympathy for the Devil” and I think Lost would be in King-verse continuity. But hey, why not? Steve won’t mind, and it’s great source material.
* For all the revelations and all the long-awaited pay-offs, I still think my favorite part of the episode was the very beginning, with the rapid cross-cutting between Ilana’s flashback, the gang on the beach, and Richard’s increasingly desperate and freaked-out flight from his old life as Jacob’s liaison. The show has only done that sort of thing a handful of times before, and never for such a sustained period of time–it felt breakneck and thrilling. I hope we see more of this style as the series hits the homestretch. It’s certainly a great way of connecting dots in a way that communicates “this is us connecting dots” while still being entertaining.
* Great little showcase for Nestor Carbonell. Again, after years of him being cool as a cucumber, it’s effective writing to flip that all on his head and show him hysterical and devastated.
* And you know, fun to watch an oldtimey Spaniard ride a horse around and sail on a big ship and such. Mmm, pulp.
* Was it just me, or was Titus Welliver shaping his line readings to mimic Terry O’Quinn now and then? Fine, fine casting.
* Oddly, I don’t have much more to say about this episode. Which is sort of the point, I would say. I’m just buckling up and going for the ride.
-It’s hard to go wrong with with Smoke Monster massacres. This one worked by by accentuating the horror aspects of it; keeping most of the mayhem off screen was much more scary than just having a repeat of the Temple massacre.
-I’m leaning more towards thinking MIB is evil, but like you said, Jacob isn’t much better. Hopefully whoever his replacement is calls out Jacob’s practices for what they were. The most especially heinous part is that if Jacob’s job is to keep MIB in check, and it seems that the rules makes it so the only way MIB can get out is by getting Jacob killed indirectly, then it’s totally irresponsible of Jacob to bring people to the island who could only help MIB do what would otherwise be impossible.
-and I guess that’s why Eko got killed. Because MIB apparently examines people to see if he can manipulate them, and decided he could with Locke, and was making up his mind about Eko. But when Eko declared he had nothing to be sorry for, it was essentially saying to MIB that there was nothing he could offer Eko to manipulate him, so he was killed. My best take on why Smokey kills some people and just examines others.
-loved all the symmetries with what happened to Ben in the season 5 finale and what happened to Sayid earlier this season and Richard’s attempt on Jacob tonight.
-so if Jacob has a hands off philosophy to the people he brings to the island, that could explain why the Others are so sociopathic. They’re making up their rules and behavior as they go. I wonder how often Richard talked to Jacob after the events of this episode.
-so if the island is underwater in the sideways universe, does that mean the island/cork is gone and MIB and his evil is out in the world in that reality? B/c things seem kind of peachy keen over there, if that’s the case.
I’m beginning to think of Jacob as an analogue to Mad Tom from The Invisibles:
“I had to brutalize the laws of physics to be here. You’ve no idea. When we discover it, we disappear.
“It’s only a game. It’s being wound up. Folded and put away like ‘Monopoly’…”
Richard’s questions are ours: why all these rules? Why can’t/won’t Jacob guide his Candidates himself? Isn’t he as complicit in all this death & madness as his opponent/prisoner?
Of course he is. So was Mad Tom, for that matter. That’s the point of a Manichean universe: just because you know the game’s rigged doesn’t mean you get a pass on acting the fool. Jacob’s as damned as anyone & he’s perfectly aware of it. Comes with the job. He’s not pretending to purity, he’s sticking to first principles– namely, as Jailer, he has to maintain security…
And maybe that’s the big trick. To hold a monstrous force captive, you build a prison for monsters– a prison outside known space & time, protected by cataracts of limitless! purple! energy! & hurricanoes. Since access to the prison demands violence on natural law, a few pilots & stewardesses might wind up resembling hors d’oeuvres. “Job screening,” sez Jacob with a wan smile. “So it goes.”
Jacob’s a tinkerer, though, passing the centuries; he doesn’t seem like a, waddayacall, Great Architect (science-magical lighthouse notwithstanding). So who actually set this infernal machine in motion? Established the Island & the rules of Jacob & Smokey’s mutually damning ‘arrangement’?
Is -this- the unspeakable secret lurking beneath LOST’s parade of Bad Daddys?
Where’s Jesse Custer when you need him?
I don’t know. Maybe it’s just me, but I never got the feeling that either MIB or Jacob were being too untrustworthy when they’ve spoken about their plans/desires with the cast. I think MIB really feels like he should be set free and is somewhat of a nihilist when it comes to what it will all mean (‘though I guess I do think he’s lying when he tells folks he can give them their loved ones back).
With Jacob, this episode was the first time we got a clear explanation of his views
Charles R.: “I guess that’s why Eko got killed.”
You read my mind.
And oh hey…one comment I was too exhausted to leave last week before the thread got away from me:
I WAS raised by a cop, and I’m not sure the police stuff was accurate or not, but it did feel like a cop TV show enough to make me think it was suspect as being any closer to real life than I found the teacher stuff the week before. Then Tom’s comment kind of blew my mind.
Then again, my dad the cop’s two favorite TV shows of all time are “Hill Street Blues” and “NYPD Blue” so who knows?
–I was thinking the same thing w/r/t Titus Welliver’s O’Quinn-mimicking. What a great day it would be if the show could find a way for those two dudes to share a scene. (I almost thought that little flashback at the end was going to be a Locke-meets-the-OG-MIB mindfuck, but alas.)
–Anyway, if/when MIB’s real name is revealed, I hope it turns out to be “Titus Welliver.” Best TV Actor Name, six years running.
–Speaking of great casting, I’ve just started getting into “Dexter,” and Mark Pellegrino has an important recurring role in the first season. I don’t want to give away too much, as it’s a show worth watching, but given that that role was probably a major factor in Pellegrino getting the part of Jacob (other than maybe Guy Who Pisses on The Dude’s Rug in The Big Lebowski, it’s his highest-profile gig in a career of one- or two-episode guest shots), it’s interesting to view Jacob through the lens of the earlier role, particularly regarding the questions of good vs. evil, man’s ability or inability to change his nature, and whether or not Jacob is who he says he is.
–Uh, but checking out Pellegrino’s IMDb page, it turns out he also played Lucifer on “Supernatural.” ZOMG Jacob really is the devil!
–Pellegrino and Welliver also have extremely similar TV-guest-star resumes: Supernatural, Numbers, Prison Break, NYPD Blue, X-Files, and not coincidentally, Nash Bridges. That’s one of the things I love most about Lost–how it’s given a bunch of long-time journeyman character actors these awesome, iconic roles. (Terry O’Quinn chief among them, of course.) I don’t know, maybe Supernatural fans feel the same way when somebody like Pellegrino or Welliver shows up on that show, but it just seems like a part on Lost is more special somehow. Like a reward, almost.
Sorry I had to miss out on last week’s discussion. For the record, I liked Sawyer’s episode. This week’s Richard showcase is an interesting contrast, in terms of pacing and story. The creators have always been good at keeping the audience on their toes, zigging one hour and zagging the next. But these two together, action packed cop show vs. meditative morality play…I wonder what they will feel like next to each other when “reading the trade.”
— Draw a line from Sydney to LAX by. Then draw a line starting at the Canary Islands by sea until it gets anywhere close to the Oceanic route. Either that was a much longer journey than shown, or Jacob pulled the Rock in from a long way away.
— If Jacob pulled the ship, why did he smash his statue? Was it the result of a previous “island crew”?
— That one shot of Locke was equal to ten, twenty shots of almost any other character.
— It’s nice to see Hurley stepping into a role of importance on the island, after months of following the “inner circles” of Jack and Locke. Hurley doesn’t fuck around when it matters, but he also doesn’t put himself higher than the emotions of the people around him.
— I’m glad to see, episode after episode, the creators sticking to the themes of redemption. For Richard, a man of great faith, even a hundred and fifty years is not enough to erase his sins.
— ANOTHER FONT?? Pick two and call it a day, dudes.
Now, to Jacob and the MIB. I’m relieved to see the lines blurring, neither entity entirely good nor evil. For Jacob, it’s fun to see them strip away any possible heroism from his character. He’s more benevolent Galactus than Silver Surfer, acknowledging the nobility of humanity without valuing their lives. After all, if your job is to prevent evil from spreading all over the planet, and perhaps beyond, what are a few hundred human lives?
But that’s the one thing that doesn’t quite fit. If your job has such heavy consequences, why fuck around with mind games on the side?
Another thing that didn’t fit for me. Jacob told Ilana that these six are the “last” candidates. You’ve got evil bottled up, but only a finite level of backup. Has the MIB succeed in scheming and smoke monstering his way though a divine supply of reinforcements?
Something tells me that there must be more to the morality plays than bragging rights. Perhaps these games with off-island humans can have real consequences for the balance of power on the island, beyond maintaining the status quo.
To paraphrase Dylan, Jacob isn’t the Devil, but he isn’t God either. Whatever he is, he seems to be less in power and ability than the MIB (although the island helps). Will it come down to a battle of wits and arrogance?
The creators are getting deep into the mysteries and closing off doors left and right. They’ve got a scheme going on that has nothing to do with anything you can look up in Wikipedia. Like Sean says, it’s difficult to second guess at this point. But still, enjoyable to watch.
I don’t think this means anything, but I thought it was kind of weird anyway:
It seemed odd to me that the “We’re all dead! We’re in hell!” stuff was brought up again after seemingly being thoroughly debunked way back in the day. But then I remembered that the last time a character (Anthony Cooper in season 3) was convinced he was in literal Hell, he was also tied up in the bowels of the Black Rock, and he was also visited by figures from his past who, according to his perspective, should not have been there.
It’s very exciting seeing Titus Welliver again. When he first showed up, I hadn’t seen any of Deadwood, and at this point I’ve watched the whole series, so it makes my heart happy for him to be around.
But all in all, I really enjoyed this episode. Particularly the end scene when Hurley showed up and had that scene with Richard and Isabella. I got goosebumps both when Hurley said ‘your wife sent me’ and ‘we all go to hell.’ Spanish-speaking Hurley is mysterious and bad-ass and bat shit crazy Richard is awesome.
To me, that scene at the end of season five where we see Jacob and MIB for the first time was a round somewhere in between “Round Richard” and “Round Locke.”
I thought the statue was intact in the season five scene.
“Pellegrino and Welliver also have extremely similar TV-guest-star resumes: Supernatural, Numbers, Prison Break, NYPD Blue, X-Files, and not coincidentally, Nash Bridges. That’s one of the things I love most about Lost–how it’s given a bunch of long-time journeyman character actors these awesome, iconic roles.”
Just one of the many ways LOST resembles Northern Exposure. Think about it.
That was an incredibly satisfying piece of television. They explained some stuff and gave Richard a back story that was worth a damn.
I also like the way Lost can still genuinely surprise me and in this episode it was the bit where Hurley walked out of the jungle. It seemed inevitable that Richard was going over to the dark side, so to be pulled back when he was so close was a great narrative side-step. Especially when it had been explicitly set up with the part where Hurley is on the beach.
The same thing happened in the Ben episode, where he was off and running and playing the same old games, only to realise he still had a place with Jack and crew, so he turned back. I live for those moments, when unexpected decisions are made for the best reasons.
I finally got my Richard episode! I was a bit disappointed though – I was hoping he was one of the egyptians who built the statue!
A couple thoughts inspired by Todd VanDerWerff’s recap. (Sorry to beat you to the punch Sean, I’m making up for skipping last week…)
— I’m continually impressed with the brazen daring of the creators, the way they boldly change up tone, setting, atmosphere, and still remain true to their characters and themes. 1870s? Why not. Colonial Spaniards? Let’s do it!!
The guts on display enhance my enjoyment of episodes like these, even if they don’t hit the heights of a David Lean epic (gotta differ with Todd on that). It’s a thrill to see them, five seasons in, rush into the unknown with no fear, instead of playing it safe. Even when they fail, it’s still a rush. Keep crushing it, dudes.
— The island is a prison, to prevent the MIB from spreading evil throughout the world. But perhaps there is a dual purpose? Jacob, with all his bloodless logic and detached determination, a being of undetermined power who loves humanity so much he hardly blinks at sending hundreds of us to our doom…perhaps this task, this job is to keep him from purposelessly roaming the Earth? It’s hard to call him benevolent…perhaps he is just ingeniously occupied? (Is Jacob working for redemption for past crimes?)
Not claiming a !THEORY! per se, but it’s an interesting dynamic. I’m not locked up in here with you, you’re locked up with me, etc.
Rewatched the Jacob and Richard conversation just now. When Richard asks why Jacob brings people to the island, Jacob explains the island-cork analogy, and then says he’s trying to prove to the MIB that humans aren’t inherently evil. What does the analogy have to do with why people are brought to the island?
Crazy theory that occurred to me, but he doesn’t directly equate MIB to that spreading evil contained on the island. Maybe jacob is explaining why he and MIB are on the island, (the cork), and that people are brought to the island for their “bet” (Which is just awful if that’s all it is)
So what if MIB is a security system for the island, and Jacob is the guardian, and the evil the island contains is neither of them, but something they both have a job to protect? Except MIB is sick of his job, and wants out, but can’t unless Jacob releases him from his job? And the MIB just doesn’t care that abandoning his post releases hell into the world.
I don’t know; I guess it’s just a crazy theory that occurred when I noticed the additional information Jacob provided to Richard’s straightforward question. Probably definitely overthinking it.
It would be awesome if Widmore brought Eddie Murphy, Jamie Lee Curtis and Dan Aykroyd to the island to defeat Jacob and MIB.
Charles R:
Nice call on the editing of the Smoke Monster sequences, particularly that first one. I’ve been saying for a couple of seasons now that it’s much harder for Lost to be scary since we know so much; it’s nice to see them going out of their way to pull it off.
Very nice call on Eko’s death. He couldn’t be manipulated, so he outlived his usefulness.
And another very nice call on Jacob’s hands-off policy leading to the corruption of his nominal servants, the Others.
I keep hoping that we’ll go to the Lincoln Memorial in the flashsideways world and it’ll be the MIB up there.
rev’D:
I assume we’ll see whatever’s behind Jacob and the MIB eventually, be it their parents or Pharoah or Set or whatever.
Kiel:
I totally agree with you that the MIB and Jacob seem to be speaking truthfully when explaining their motives. They may not be telling the whole truth, but it does seem that Jacob really is trying to prove that there’s good in people, and MIB is a pessimist about human nature who hates being stuck on the Island. Indeed, the thing I bought from them more than anything else is when MIB just out and begged Jacob, “Please let me leave.” I felt for him!
I don’t think the MIB and Jacob scan to destiny and free will as neat as all that. If anything, MIB wants to have the choice to leave, and for others to have that option too, it seems, while Jacob’s the puppetmaster forcing everyone to come to the Island.
Gardner and Sam 2: I’m still hoping for Ian McShane as MIB Sr.
Sam H.:
Does the Island move through space as well as time? Has that been established at any point?
The statue thing seemed like an accident to me.
I don’t think Jacob plays mind games for gits and shiggles, I think they’re a function of him not wanting to interact too directly with the pawns in his game.
I too love how nakedly fictional the show’s willing to get. All those TV drama genres the flashsidewayses have inhabited, as Tom S. has pointed out; all the pulp/genre fiction references, from Indiana Jones to The Stand…that’s always been one of the most fun aspects of the show for me.
Yeah, I wonder who’s really the prisoner of the Island. Jacob can obviously come and go at will, but what the hell would he be getting up to if it weren’t there?
Charles R.: Yeah, I think you’re overthinking it. 🙂
Spurge: All I know from that movie is the topless scene, sorry.
Todd VanDerWerff, wherever you are:
What struck me in his recap for this week is that his reaction was very similar to mine, in that it took him a while to figure out what he made of the episode. I sort of thought my lack of things to say about it might have at least as much to do with my own exhaustion that night as it did with the “just give up, making predictions is futile” set-up I described above, so I’m glad to hear someone else say the same thing.
I also appreciated his point about how Season One Richard’s flashback was, and how well the “doomed romance” thing worked despite how often Lost has gone to that particular well.
However, he buys Jacob (and Dogen, when you think about it)’s claim that the MIB is pure evil who will corrupt the whole world should he escape a little more than I do at this point. Don’t get me wrong, I’d love nothing more than to see this show wrap up with our castaways basically trying to defeat Sauron, but as I keep saying, Jacob and his many minions are too sketchy for me to believe that his opponent doesn’t have at least in part a more innocuous motive for his behavior than “I want to destroy the world” or whatever. Again, I keep coming back to him begging to be let free–it was just him and Jacob at that point, why would he pretend that that was his motive if it weren’t true?
I disagreed with him most strongly over his characterization of the opening–he said it was too rushed, but I found that super-exciting–and of the ending–he found the smashing of the bottle heavy-handed, but I found the use of slo-mo to put it even further over the top poetic and powerful like all great genre spectacle.
Finally, per his weekly follow-up, it bums me out how many complaints I’ve heard that the episode was boring and didn’t give any answers. But that’s an old song you’ve heard me sing dozens of times, so I won’t belabor it. I will say I appreciate that this comment crew has become an oasis from the NEEDZ MOAR ANSWRS crowd. Bless you all!
Anybody else notice how the priest just walks off with Richard’s bible?
…then sells him into slavery to save his life. Wotta DICK.
I liked Charles R’s theory -it fits the puzzle pieces pretty well.
Boy, that was a good episode – how could anyone complain there were no answers? It was all infodump, but well-done and compelling infodump. They did rip off The Stand just a teensy bit, though… as long as we don’t have to hear that awful song by The Alarm at some point. (obligatory old man 80’s ref)